Magical Pro Teachings

pinky

Hey all!

I ask you to consider boycotting pubtricks.com

They seem to be marketing other peoples work with neither mention/proper attribution, nor permission.

My email with Lee Asher is below, I have edited out personal email addresses using "***".
I have had further correspondence with him, as the site has yet to remove the referenced material.
SELLING SOMEONE ELSES WORK AS YOUR OWN IS BAD.
If you think you came up with it on your own, and someone else has already published it, sorry, once you have been notified, you need to remove it from the market.

---
Hey ***pinky***,

Thanks for the heads up. Yep, this is a direct knock-off of the Asher
Twist. Clearly, this guy never learned it properly! His handling is
rotten.

I'll certainly be emailing them for a cease and desist.

Thanks again for the heads-up. I really appreciate it.

Speak with you soon.

Cheers,
Lee Asher



Quoting[***pinky***]
Lee-

This looks suspiciously like a rip-off of your material...but with
inferior handling! (too many movements of cards to the bottom).
I'm sure others will have pointed this link out to you by now, but I
just discovered it.

Twisted magic trick

If it is your material, please shut these guys down!
Or at least speak harshly to them.

Yours Sincerely,

***pinky***

Scott

yes this is never good
theres always copy cats out there who will try it on

bluehawk

i think so that some of it was from other already invented

but what flash in to my brain is

How can we know ...for the new trick .... how can we know who is the first guy think and published it???

and was it fair if common guys think of their own tricks post on youtube

and a couple of weeks later the shop saling it as their own????

just only my opinion and want to know who other think if this thing might be unfair?
just only probably ^U^

Scott

no you are right bluehawk, even magicians take others work
most of the things being sold today as a new move or product is just come from a very old magic book
well not everything, but most tricks is an old move been re-vamped, and then improved upon to make it better for selling

pinky

I apologize if I misunderstand your English.
If you are asking how you can know if you have created an original effect or sleight, then the answer would be: research it.
There is much available on the internet that you can use for reference. No excuse not to try.
Read books (which may be difficult because of language or availability).
Ask other Magicians...link them to your effect and ask if they have seen anything like it...and who did it.
Then, follow-up and research more.

If, you get a notice that someone has already published it, then consider the idea that they have already established THEIR right to it.

One of our users here had an effect that was listed on Nathan Kranzo's site.
Nathan was contacted by the originator/rights holder of the effect, and Nathan immediately removed the version from his site.

I do not understand clearly the other part of your message.
If you are asking if I think it is fair if YOU post an effect you think you have created on YouTube, and SOMEBODY ELSE sells it the next week, then No, it is not fair!

Be realistic. Magic has been around for a lot longer than any one of us has been alive. Much has been already created. Compared to what has already been invented, the percentage of NEW ideas is small.
YES, new ideas are always springing up. But you must be prepared to hear that even though you came up with an idea by yourself, and it looks new to YOU and your friends, it could be that many other people also came up with the same idea, and the First creator of an effect may be someone who lived a hundred years ago.

In a rush to publish and profit from an idea, don't get lazy: DO RESEARCH; and if someone else is already marketing it, it is not fair to THEM for you to take money from them.

If you think that *I* am the only one who cares, you are seriously mistaken.
I do understand about people being defensive about what they think "they" own/created/etc. and that defensiveness does not excuse anything, once they have been shown that they were, in fact, not the first one to claim rights to an idea.

If you want to perform magic, then do what performers do.
If you want to come up with and sell new ideas, then you need to do what is expected for that, and part of that is to immerse yourself in the history of your interest, and make sure you are not wasting time re-inventing the wheel.
There is no quick or easy solution.

And MANY people care.

pax maximus,

pinky

Scott

pinky is right of course, and i agree
most of the Effects that are out there these days are not being credited to the original creator
People are taking tricks that have been passed down for generations and packaging them up and selling them to others with no credit given
They are certainly not putting any effort, or hard work into the tricks, its not even as if there inventing new effects, or tricks
there just reading old books, and everything just about on Ellusionist is old hat stuff, and nothing new

nathanernest

I think that credit should be given where it is due, BUT I also think that people do have the right to sell on their own methods for non original effects that they make. For instance, Lee Asher says in the Asher Twist DVD. "The Asher Twist is my take on Twisting the Aces by Dai Vernon". Now, I must point out that the Asher Twist is easy to figure out. Its just hard to do (if you're not a card person). I really like Lee's efforts to give very good credit where it is due and he even states that turning over a card under a spread isn't new.

So if a layman figures out a method for a trick (sometimes their method could be different) is there a problem with selling their Method??

E.g, I see Chris Angel do a trick on tv. I sit for a few moments and figure out a method out that works but I really have no idea if it is how he does it. Can I sell it as the same trick? No, becuase I do not know that this is the right way to do it. How much do you need to modify a trick or method to call it your own?

I think that in the digital world now, there must be places like this to let people know before they buy that the originals are better and credit should get to them instead.

Also, what about the pros making dvds? Will Alex Elmsly get money from Bill Malone on the loose? If I do a trick in my routine (that I didn't invent) cant i teach it in a lecture? Brad Cristian started up by saying "Learn how to do David Blaine tricks". Well these tricks weren't invented by Blaine either so is this twice as bad :-) I say yes.

BUT,

I dont see a problem with selling a trick that is similar to another. The asher twist isn't a complicated trick (in its basic form anyway). with a tripple lift being the hardest part of the routine. This person could have very well "invented" this on their own. Or even seen somebody on the street do it, then go home and change it? I'm sure you all see where i'm coming from here :-)

Hybrid

In this case, the method is exactly the same as the Asher Twist so it isn't right that they're selling it as their own effect without referencing.

pinky

Vision magic trick
This is the same effect that Nathan Kranzo DELETED from his website when he got a polite note from the ORIGINAL (published) AUTHOR.

Email, from Nathan Kranzo:

"... Yup Its PUNCTURED by Ben Morris

I'll send Nicholas a note and see what he says.

... ...

Thanks for the note! : ) "

So, now they are documented to be selling effects that they DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS TO. (Unless, of course Ben Morris has given them written permission to sell his effect...then it is the Lee Asher effect that they have refused to remove from their site, despite his cease and desist note to them)(I am not in contact with Mr. Morris, so I do not know for a fact whether he has given permission...If he had, I would suspect that Nathan would be selling it!).

Good bit of research there, NICHOLAS1UUSI. If you REALLY came up with this on your own, GOOD WORK! Seriously! But you have been informed that you are not the rights-holder; despite that you are seeking to profit from another's published effect. So much for research, eh?
(And by a perverse twist, a real congrats on winning a deck of J Nug cards from Lee! Weird coincidence!)

Talixxo

I never liked pubtricks.
Mainly because they sell for more and they sold what wasn't theirs.